Sam: I know I've been a bit slack, for which I apologize... this semester is DESTROYING MY SOUL and I haven't had more than 5 hours of sleep in a night since... um. Early September, I think. I haven't had more than 3 hours per night in at least a week and a half. Yay art school.
But I am determined that we should talk football!
Mer, are you, um, alright? You've got Mike McMahon now! He's, uh. Well. He can throw real hard. Yeah. Hard. Mike McMahon. Former Lion.
I'm not sure about where they're being broadcast, but I would vigorously encourage ALL OF YOU to watch the Michigan/Ohio State game at 1pm on Saturday and the Lions/Falcons Thanksgiving Day game on, uh, Thanksgiving. And this way, you'll know ahead of time if I'm going to be suicidal or not. [boy, that worked out well, huh?]
As for the Turkey Day game, well, it's tradition, and there's always the slight slight chance that we'll win, and how often do you kids get to see the Lions play anyways? Not very often, I reckon. You should take advantage of the opportunity to view this majestic squad while you are able. I've no idea if/where that's being broadcast, as I haven't watched it on TV since before I was old enough to know what was going on.
Kristen: Well, Sam, according to my handy TV guide thingie, the Falcons/Atlanta game is on Fox on Thanksgiving and I'll be able to see it. So I will. So there you go. The OSU/Michigan game is on ABC on Saturday which I also get but Saturday night is my big, ginormous birthday party so I'm not sure how around and in front of a television I'll be. I will, however, be rooting for Michigan in spirit because of you. And, you know, Tom Brady.
Do you think Brady and Vrabel give each other shit constantly about the whole Michigan/OSU thing?
Also, Mer, have you completely given up on the Eagles and give the Flyers all your love? 'Cause I probably wouldn't blame you. Goddamn.
Samara? I don't understand the addition the your sig there. "Miami Dolphins-- 2005 Defending Team That Actually Beat the Pats Last Season." What the hell are you talking about? Beth will concur. We never lost to the Dolphins last year. The game was called on account of blindness when people looked directly into the jerseys of the Dolphins players. Don't you remember?
Beth: Yeah, that whole thing is weird. Why does everyone keep talking about this game that never happened?
Meanwhile, I'm not sure what we can hope for out of any of our teams this year. I have a terrible feeling this may be the year the Indianapolis Martyr's Brigade actually hits the big time. Which, gag me.
Sam: Kristen, that sig line's been there for a while now... my mom appreciates it. Every Sunday I get a call from home as soon as the Lions game ends so that my dad can talk about it, and usually my mother gets on the phone after him to gripe about the Dolphins. Heh.
Beth, I don't know what you're talking about. DETROIT LIONS GON' WIN DA NFC NORTH, HOS! GON' BEAT DOWN DA BEARS! OR SOMETHING!
Mer: football? huh? wha? Don't know what you're talking about.
Honestly, though, football has provided nothing but misery lately. Living in Dallas, and working at a goddamn sports station, at a time when the Cowboys are better than the Eagles is one of the worst experiences ever. It had better be short lived or my health and sanity are in danger.
Go Flyers!
Sam: Well, look to this SUNDAY then, when the Cowboys take on the RED HOT DETROIT LIONS. Root Honolulu Blue and Silver, my friends. Root it hard.
Kristen: Sam, you really should be doing promo ads for ESPN or something. [I assume this was a sage commentary on my CAPITILAZATIONIZED OPTIMISM]
Beth: i'm going to the pats game sunday. [you can read her recap of the outing here] playing NO so hopefully it'll be a W. gotta keep up my win percentage at Gillette (which I believe is almost perfect).
where are the pats going this year? thoughts? is indy going to stay undefeated? if they do, what form of hari-kiri shall we perform?
Kristen: The only time I will ever, ever, ever in my life root for Pittsburgh is when they play Indy. Because I hate the Colts with the white hot passion of a thousand exploding suns.
Plus, their schedule is a joke.
Beth: i knew their early schedule was crap, but does it continue to be a cakewalk? can anyone besides pittsburgh beat them? and what do you think the future is for the pats? what about the eagles, also? will they pull together now that TO's gone? or will they miss his performance too much?
Interesting article here about the Pittsburgh defense.
oh, and here's my dire patriots prediction:
if tom brady keeps getting hit like he has been this season, he'll be hurt before it's over. in fact, his probable rating leads me to believe he's ALREADY hurt but playing through it. but he could conceivably have to sit out if he keeps getting effin pancaked like that chewing-gum-and-bailing-wire O-line has been allowing.
Thoughts?
Sam: I haven't been following the Pats as closely so far this year... Lions and Wolverines have been more than enough to frazzle my brain, football-wise. So I don't know... how bad is the O-line? That's a HUGE part of why the Colts are where they are right now, their O-line kicks ass. And it's a HUGE part of the Lions' issues... it doesn't matter who they have at QB so long as the O-line continues to suck wind. The games they do well in are the games where the O-lines sucks it up and the QB (Joey OR Garcia, it matters not) has time to look around and throw before he's hurled to the turf.
I realize that's not exactly revolutionary or anything, the importance of your offensive line, but I'm just sayin'.
Beth: yeah, i mean, a lot of it is due to injuries, esp. matt light, protecting brady's blind side, but tom brady has been taking some SHOTS this season. i mean, punishing, punishing hits, and repeatedly. i know he's a tough guy, esp. for a qb, but it keeps happening and happening. now, watching games i'm sort of on pins and needles waiting for that hit to come, and when it does, i'm gnawing my fingernails waiting for him to get up. it's happening more often than i can remember since he's been the starter, and yeah, it makes me really worried.
Sam: You should see what Joey puts up with. I'm really shocked, when I actually stop to think about it, that he's not hurt, or that he's not hurt enough to keep him from playing, anyways. It's not just that he gets flattened-- he gets flattened EVERY DAMN WEEK, repeatedly throughout the game.
So I'm sayin', yeah, Tommy might be getting knocked around, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's going to herniate on us. Sorry Mer. But if Joey Harrington, who at least half the league dismisses as 'too soft', can take it...
Beth: why is he listed as "probable" then?
Kristen: He's listed as probable every week. I think he's been listed as probable every week since last season. I started to freak out about that too until I realized that they always do that.
Sorry I've been non-responsive today. Our internet at work is spotty and I'm slowly going insane.
Beth: sok. i am clearly a dumbass. he has been getting hit a lot, tho. and he's pretty much magic, but not superhuman. i worry. i worry about that tommy, i do.
i was watching three games to glory iii last night and came across something i'd missed--before the game vs. the colts when everyone was picking the colts, there's this shot of brady coming out through the tunnel for his warm ups and as he comes out and the whole crowd goes nuts he raises his arms up and basks in the cheer like a gladiator and omg so fucking awesome and hot and i think my loins just exploded even thinking about it.
Mer: now that the eagles suck ass and get off on making girls cry, I'm only good for the occassional football talk. here it is for today:
Dhani Jones! Reviewing movies! And being hot!
Sam: "Ladies, get your camera phones ready."
*dies*
There are a few guys in sports that I can't get over... like, every time I think I've become accustomed to how awesome they are, they made me giddy with awesomeity all over again. Dudes like Brad Ausmus or Brandon Inge... and Dhani Jones, natch.
Beth: my guys like that are tedy [bruschi], tommy [brady], and curt. and probably tito [francona]. i know what you mean.
This discussion was prompted by a question from a football-neophyte:
"Do all Pats fans hate the Steelers as much as you?”
So we asked, “We're inundated with the idea of a rivalry in baseball, why doesn't anyone ever talk about it in football?”
And away we go!
Beth: I think they talk about with the Pack and the Vikes. And, uh...hmm. Other than that, I'm not sure.
Personally, it's hard to pick whether I dislike the Colts or the Steelers more. I think I *fear* the Steelers more. I also have unpleasant encounters with Steelers fandom, but I haven't, to my knowledge, ever really interacted with a Colts fan.
Oh, wait. Last year on opening day, I did. But after a couple of volleys of trash-talk, he didn't say much.
So I'd have to say I dislike the Steelers more.
And I DO dislike them. Very, very much. But I don't HATE them the way I hate the Yankees. That's it's own special kind of hate.
As for why there are more baseball rivalries, there are more games. Each team has to play its division opponents 19 times in every regular season. The Patriots play each team in its division one time, and then as for the rest of the league, they rarely ever meet them in the regular season at all. The opponents change from year to year. There isn't a lot of time to get good and riled up together the way there is in baseball.
The other thing that creates a rivalry is for two places to have ire for one another before there's even a sport there. Like Boston and New York--we've had issues since the pilgrims.
Green Bay and Minnesota have that geographical thing going on--and Green Bay doesn't have a baseball team. These are also two highly cold-weather, hard-nosed, football-inclined states. They also regularly contend for the same division. One team has won several championships, while the other has made it to the mountaintop and failed. These may be general ingredients in any rivalry.
As for Boston or New York, football can't get a word in edgewise on baseball, just because baseball's been around longer, and we're two historically aware, intellectual cities.
On principle, I dislike the Jets, but in my personal recollection, what have they ever done to us?
I SHOULD dislike the NY football Giants because that's the football team most Yankees fans follow, but whatever. They're in the NFC.
Meredith: Speaking of rivalries, I think the reason rivalries never stay as strong in football are because teams don't stay good for long enough. For example, ask older Cowboys fans and they'll tell you that the Redskins are their biggest rival. However, both teams have been pretty bad for a while now, so the "rivalry" barely exists. Ask anyone in Philadelphia, and they'll tell you that "Dallas Sucks." Toddlers in Philly learn to say that immediately following "mommy" and "daddy." But Dallas has been a pretty terrible team for a while, so on their end, it isn't much of a rivalry anymore. When a team goes 5-11 for several years, rivalries die because...well...if you know you can't beat your rival, what is the point in having one?
Of course, the Eagles could go 0-16 for a decade and Philadelphians would still hate the Cowboys and their fans with a white hot hate. It goes back to the days of Tom Landry and the very cocky nickname, "America's Team." There was the player strike of 1987. Philly, a union city, had a bunch of replacement players when they played the Cowboys at the beginning of their season, and the Cowboys had Danny White, Tony Dorsett, Ed "Too Tall" Jones, Randy White (three of whom I've met for work related purposes, by the way, and fought through the bile that was forcing its way up my throat as I spoke to them), all of whom broke rank immediately after the strike began. So obviously the Cowboys would win. But Tom Landry had a healthy lead at the half and put all of his star players in the game to stop a late Eagles drive that wouldn't have mattered anyway. Buddy Ryan, the Eagles coach, was pissed off and vowed revenge. A couple weeks later, when all of the real players had returned, they met in Philly. The Birds had a 10 point lead in the final minute and the great Randall Cunningham took a knee twice before faking a knee and throwing a long pass that lead to a penalty and eventually, a TD. To Cowboys fans, it was the ultimate insult. To Eagles fans, it was Christmas. Finally, someone had told "America's Team" to shove it. Then, of course, there was the arrival of Jimmy Johnson in Dallas, the Bounty Game, the infamous snowball game, the Michael Irvin injury on the Vet's turf, etc.
When Buddy Ryan became coach of the Eagles, he said at his press conference that he'd been informed that the only important thing, as coach of the Eagles, was that his team beat the Cowboys. Things really haven't much changed since then in Philly.
Have I told ya'll about the time I led a sports bar in Philly in a "Dallas Sucks" chant live on television? Did I know you all then? Ahh, good times.
Beth: I think the Colts/Pats rivalry developed in a similar way, although not with as much personal enmity--kind of a happenstance thing, the teams thrown together, clash of cultures, etc.
Sam: Let's not forget the cocky Vanderjerk gestures, and the fact that most everyone in the universe just assumed Peyton Manning and his Mad Touchdown Skillz couldn't be matched by a QB as unflashy as Tom Brady.
Beth: In fairness, Vanderjerk cocky gestures, yes, but as we've seen, Rodney Harrison et al aren't exactly looked upon more favorably in the rest of the league.
Sam: Well, yeah, but Rodney doesn't 'disrespect' his opponents. He just whines to the point of absurdity about perceived slights. Bit of a difference, that.
Kristen: I think you have a point, Beth, with the need for a clash of cities/cultures/etc. for a real rivalry to take root. And I agree with you, Mer, that the reason football rivalries don’t seem to last is because the teams rarely stay good for a span of generations. So even if my father were to pass down a hatred of, let’s say, for arguments sake, the Bills, I’d look at the records in the past few years and kind of shrug and say, “I guess because they’re in our division, but…Bills?”
But if you asked me right now who the Pats’ rival is, I think I’d have to say Pittsburgh. The Colts are in contention, sure, but they’ve never beaten us when it mattered. Peyton Manning doesn’t scare me anymore. I suppose you could argue that the Steelers haven’t beaten us when it mattered either but they did end the Pats’ streak last year, somehow, we always end up playing on their turf and, like you, Beth, I have to deal with their fans on a regular basis. I’m not sure I’ve ever met a Colts fan.
However, possibly because I let things get to me way too much or I have been listening to far too much Rodney Harrison-type talk, I really, honestly, truly hate the Steelers. Nothing would make me happier for them to lose every remaining game on their schedule. They don’t have the arrogance and cockiness of Yankees fans, but there is something that just doesn’t sit right with me. Maybe it’s a perceived sense of entitlement or something. Like they deserve it because they work SO HARD and their city just loves their team SO MUCH and aren’t they TOUGH and GRRRRR, STEELERS! And yeah, okay, great. But seriously? Shut up. They are also the last people on the planet to admit that maybe, just maybe, the Pats might actually have a freakin’ dynasty. They just don’t want anyone else in their “club.” Obviously, I’m biased, but I really can’t stand them.
Plus, their field keeps breaking our best players.
